12+ easy miles in the bag and that's my last long run until Boston! A and I got out first thing yesterday morning to tackle some hills down in BRes. Felt really good. A is amazing. She hasn't run more than 6 miles at a time in a month and she comes out and runs one of our hilliest routes with me at about the same pace we would be running if we were out on the towpath!

The baby shower yesterday was nice. David and I pretty much vegged after that and had BBQ ribs off the grill! So tasty! Friday night I had to bail on the concert as the weather was crap and I didn't want to drive 2 hours there and back by myself in thunderstorms. So we have been getting our movie on. Friday night was Brokeback Mountain. Holy tear jerker! Then last night was Memoirs of a Geisha (guess who picked the movies ;)) Tonight we will watch a manly movie though. We have heard the horrible reviews but oh well we are still going to watch Doom :)

I have been busy doing laundry and cleaning up all weekend and the house actually feels livable now. Funny how all of that falls to the wayside with all of this training and life getting in the way!

Now that Boston is almost upon me I am already off and running with JFK plans :)

I get a little antsy during taper and usually start addressing my goals for the race and future races. Right now I am trying to decide on a second fall marathon besides Chicago. CK claims that in order to get ready for JFK it would be beneficial to do back to back marathons.

I am torn about it. I know I could do it, but I really want to PR at Chicago and I am afraid that in order to do 2 marathons back to back I can't give either an "A" race effort. And I feel pretty good but I don't think a 3:25 is in the Boston cards.

For shits and giggles I looked at a pace chart for that (Nike's site has a pretty cool calculator for Boston) and I just don't think that is the race I want to run next Monday. I am imagining an easy start and negative split which means a slower time this time around. With those downhills I don't think I can go out as fast as I would need to comfortably run 3:25. Who knows, I am still indecisive. I guess I will just have to come up with two plans and go with whatever feels good race day. (I honestly don't feel very "fast" right now. My track splits have been okay but I think they were faster last year, I think maybe I am getting stronger and tougher, but not faster)

Anyways, I was looking for another fall marathon and Columbus and Detroit are popping up, I am also looking into a trail marathon as a significant portion of JFK is trails. I am leaning towards Detroit because it is the week after Chicago. I was hoping to combine this with a relay with my sister for her first half but Detroit doesn't have a 2 man relay. So if we wanted to do that Columbus would be better. But that is the week before Chicago. Decisions decisions!

So what are the veteran Ultra runners thoughts on the back to back marathons (esp. for a first time ultra runner)? And is it really beneficial to do those in mid-late October when JFK is the Saturday before Thanksgiving? I would think I would want my last longer run a little closer to race date. How many 20-26 miles runs do you typically put in before a 50 miler. I am envisioning only 2 really long runs (20+) with a 2-3 week taper and I won't be going into really high mileage as I usually get injured when I close in on 60 mpw. I am thinking I will top out around 55 mpw.

I have been doing some internet "research" and so far these are the sites I found most useful for advice:

Reston Runners JFK Site

Extreme Ultra Running


BuckeyeRunner said...

Not sure how this would fit into the race plans, but the Towpath is a really nice marathon. Small, and a lot of it is on the TP - I didn't think it would make a difference in how my legs felt, but it really did! I ran it about 20 minutes faster that my spring one that year!

mouse said...



TriSaraTops said...

No clue. :) I'm not what you'd call an ultra runner. hee hee Heard good things about both though!!!

angie's pink fuzzy said...

Well, I'm not a veteran, but I do like to run ultras (okay, so I've only done one, and I'm in training for another). It sounds like you are in great shape. I think running back-to-back marathons would be excellent training, provided you don't push it - you don't want to get injured.

The big thing I've found is that everyone trains differently. There are huge debates in the ultrarunning community about how much mileage is needed for an ultra and how to get that mileage (long runs? back-to-back runs? high mileage? low mileage?). Basically, it boils down to experimenting for yourself to see what works for you (fat lot of help that is! :) ).

In the Tucson ultrarunning community, they have a trail series, and many of the runs are close to 50k distance. These guys run these regularly, in addition to their own training schedules, in training for their 50 to 100 milers.

I think you'd probably want to add an additional 20+ run after the marathons - such as right before you begin your taper. My thoughts include doing more than two 20+ runs, as well. But once again, this is all coming from watching my husband and my friends train (I've only done a 50k) - I have yet to do a 50 miler! (I'm eyeing Zane Grey, a wicked 50 miler in AZ. Close to home, lots of friends, full year to prep.)

robtherunner said...

I think you will be fine with 2-3 really long runs. I like to do as many as possible, with the exception of right now, but I think how well you recover is definitely a factor. On the back to back marathons are we talking back to back days, or back to back weekends?

We have a saying in the Marathon Maniacs. Let it all hang out on day one and suffer the consequences on day two.

If it is back to back weekends than you can alter the saying for that. You would be amazed at how fast you can run a marathon on day two even if you can barely walk up stairs.

Cy said...


It actually is a nice scenery-type marathon.

This year, the runners go over the Ambassador Bridge into Canada, then back through the Windsor-Detroit tunnel, down to Belle Isle (an island in the middle of the Detroit River) and end at Ford Field (where the Detroit Lions play.)

Plus, I live here. :)

Detroit, Baby!

qcmier said...

Hey DJ Liz, thanks for the tune. That tune is on my pre race playlist and has the requisite Boston connection. I'd like to send it out to you and the Boston runners. You all are going to rock that town. Hope to run with you in Beantown on Patriot's Day 2007.

Running Jayhawk said...

As long as Chicago stays on your roster... :)

DaisyDuc said...

No clue on the ultrarunning. I did Columbus back in 98 and I liked the course. I keep trying to think about if I would possibly want to do a marathon again this year and have thought about maybe Columbus again..hmmm??? not sure

Enjoy your taper!

A. M. Mericsko said...

So, any chance of Dahler & I talking you into running Marine Corp. instead of Chi-Town in the fall?

Cliff said...

You always have great music video posted. I love taht song. I didn't realize the video is so violent. What's with all this toys beating each other up.

Kim said...

Hurray for Boston! When are you heading into the area? You can find us all in our purple TNT singlets at the starting line!

Anne said...

If you do decide to do the double-marathon route, Detroit would be a nice addition. And in case I don't get around to it later: Good luck next Monday. I can tell you're gonna tear up the course!

Scott said...

Have you ever considered either of the two Fall marathons in Toronto? If you're in Cleveland, the distance is driveable.


The latter course is very flat along the waterfront (hence the name). I would think the former course would be the more difficult of the two - seems to me it has some nasty hills and that a good portion of it is downhill like Boston (I'm not certain of that though).

Anyway, best for Boston.

Rae said...

I can't believe Boston is getting so close!

There are so many marathons in the fall!! I'd recommend you do your second one in conditions similar to JFK as far as elevations and such. I'm having a tough time deciding what all I want to do in the fall, too!

Susan said...

YAYA - Good luck in Boston.

Jessica Deline said...

Yes - Good luck in Boston! Can't wait to hear the report!

Tammy said...

Ok swimming guru, translate this for me:

WU: 6 x 50 increasing pace slightly each 25. MS: All are at T-pace: 100 (10”), 200 (15”), 300 (15”), 400 (30”), 400 (30”), 300 (15”), 200 (15”), 100. CD: 300 easy with emphasis on form. Total—2600

I'm so cornfuselled!

iliketoast said...

Cool .... I'm doing another marathon 3 weeks after Canberra so I'll let you know how it goes.

Black Knight said...

In Boston the runner are already scared: Elizabeth is coming!
Good luck (to your enemies of course because they don't have any chance when you are on the run).......

Josh said...

Good luck in Boston!

Ben said...

Go out conservatively in Boston, even splits is key.